[Mhydrian]

Originally Posted by TeamVernia What would you rather instead? Free loot?

Honestly do you think this even warrants a response? I was pretty explicit about why the content is sub par. But by all means I can understand why such a response was given...anyone with any hunger for real gameplay or fun challenges has long ago left this game. So what we have left are only the uncreative and/or raid oriented people who still put up with this either because they don't run 6 man stuff or are willing to put up with the horrible mechanics.

Just wondering how inactive the population has to get before people start to wake up. I know I sure have played plenty of MMOs that manage to have challenge and not grind and toil as a main theme in their game. And if you want to talk about free epics..attend a raid...that basically is free loot in this game. Which is why there probably are more raids than some of the more hard mode dungeons being run on a daily basis.

[TeamVernia]

Originally Posted by Mhydrian Honestly do you think this even warrants a response? I was pretty explicit about why the content is sub par. But by all means I can understand why such a response was given...anyone with any hunger for real gameplay or fun challenges has long ago left this game. So what we have left are only the uncreative and/or raid oriented people who still put up with this either because they don't run 6 man stuff or are willing to put up with the horrible mechanics. Just wondering how inactive the population has to get before people start to wake up. I know I sure have played plenty of MMOs that manage to have challenge and not grind and toil as a main theme in their game. And if you want to talk about free epics..attend a raid...that basically is free loot in this game. Which is why there probably are more raids than some of the more hard mode dungeons being run on a daily basis.

You still haven't said what you'd rather instead, though.

"There are other ways to make something challenging rather than saturating it with instant death and instant fail mechanics. I don't call that challenging at all, I call it poor gameplay."

What kind of things would make the dungeons more challenging?

[Mhydrian]

Originally Posted by TeamVernia You still haven't said what you'd rather instead, though. "There are other ways to make something challenging rather than saturating it with instant death and instant fail mechanics. I don't call that challenging at all, I call it poor gameplay." What kind of things would make the dungeons more challenging?

Take a look at rift if you lack inspiration, take a look at wow when it did it correctly. There are countless examples. But yet you are determined to defend the currently empty 6 man group content in AoC.

But no it looks like the norm will be invisible insta deaths, and killer debuffs. It does not work and it discourages people from doing the content. Its not worth the trouble for the pain in the ass it presents. Much easier to go into a lala raid that is in farm mode.

[sugarspice]

AOC is for a brighter crowd that can multi task as far as playing the toon, watch buffs, debuffs, cast bars, targets target and learn game mechanics. Most any raid can carry the mindless thru T1 and BRC. 6 man design really helps to train folks for T3 and beyond raids. Some of those 6 mans used to be astounding for the skill, teamwork, tanks and dps required so that when you finished, the kill was exhilarating. Now most have been dumbed down. If you don't like the 6 mans I don't think you will enjoy T3 or beyond.

[Evito1916]

Don't remind me of when the mines was fun, and required movement, skill and a co-ordinated group

Everytime I do the nerfed abyss I feel like I'm cheating on the original Abyss QQ

[Bvis]

Originally Posted by Mhydrian But no it looks like the norm will be invisible insta deaths, and killer debuffs. It does not work and it discourages people from doing the content. Its not worth the trouble for the pain in the ass it presents. Much easier to go into a lala raid that is in farm mode.

Can you please give an example of "inivisible insta deaths" in the AoC 6 man instances? I somehow managed to finish all of the godslayer instances without spending the whole fight staring at my debuff bar. Having to watch the boss's castbar is not unique to AoC - it's pretty important in a lot of fights in WoW too for interrupting key abilities (sorry I never played Rift outside of their open beta week so I don't know what mechanics they used).

Why do you think T3/T3.5/T4 raids are easier than any of the 6 man zones in their current forms except maybe the Tian-An time trial? Sure T1 and T2 raids are easy, but they drop loot that is inferior to a lot of the BLUE items from Khitai, and much much worse than the Khitai purples.

[sugarspice]

Originally Posted by Legend Don't remind me of when the mines was fun, and required movement, skill and a co-ordinated group Everytime I do the nerfed abyss I feel like I'm cheating on the original Abyss QQ

The first Abyss kill was exactly like that! OMG what fun! Now...pretty lame.

[EmperorNorton]

Originally Posted by sugarspice AOC is for a brighter crowd that can multi task as far as playing the toon, watch buffs, debuffs, cast bars, targets target and learn game mechanics. Most any raid can carry the mindless thru T1 and BRC. 6 man design really helps to train folks for T3 and beyond raids. Some of those 6 mans used to be astounding for the skill, teamwork, tanks and dps required so that when you finished, the kill was exhilarating. Now most have been dumbed down. If you don't like the 6 mans I don't think you will enjoy T3 or beyond.

And what pray tell is the point of that?

This is a game, not a martial art.

[mdapol]

Originally Posted by sugarspice AOC is for a brighter crowd that can multi task as far as playing the toon, watch buffs, debuffs, cast bars, targets target and learn game mechanics. Most any raid can carry the mindless thru T1 and BRC. 6 man design really helps to train folks for T3 and beyond raids. Some of those 6 mans used to be astounding for the skill, teamwork, tanks and dps required so that when you finished, the kill was exhilarating. Now most have been dumbed down. If you don't like the 6 mans I don't think you will enjoy T3 or beyond.

The fact that you play AOC would in no way influence you to call AOC "for a brighter crowd", would it?

You know that people rationalize all sorts of things to make their decisions seem to be the correct ones?

I've heard this claim many times before but from my experience with other MMOs, it's not true. Yes, AOC has it's own style, and you may prefer that style, and that's perfectly ok. But I wouldn't say that it requires more brainpower than other MMOs. Many MMO boss fights require all you say and may feel more enjoyable or more challenging to someone.

[TeamVernia]

Originally Posted by mdapol The fact that you play AOC would in no way influence you to call AOC "for a brighter crowd", would it? You know that people rationalize all sorts of things to make their decisions seem to be the correct ones? I've heard this claim many times before but from my experience with other MMOs, it's not true. Yes, AOC has it's own style, and you may prefer that style, and that's perfectly ok. But I wouldn't say that it requires more brainpower than other MMOs. Many MMO boss fights require all you say and may feel more enjoyable or more challenging to someone.

Would't say it requires more brain power, but certainly more player skill because of movement and combos.