[RentonsHouse]

Why is so much effort being put into this new sprint mechanism rather than other game issues?

To me, the biggest problem with sprint could be solved by simply adding a stamina drain to spell casting (in addition to mana). That way, everyone could use stamina pots, and would be on a level playing field.

[Unutterable]

Originally Posted by RentonsHouse Why is so much effort being put into this new sprint mechanism rather than other game issues? To me, the biggest problem with sprint could be solved by simply adding a stamina drain to spell casting (in addition to mana). That way, everyone could use stamina pots, and would be on a level playing field.

Personally speaking I've thought they needed a sprint bar for ages. As far as other issues, they've consistently fuggered their fixes on the same crap over and over again for a while, time for them to fugger a fix on something new.

[chodebucket]

Originally Posted by RentonsHouse Why is so much effort being put into this new sprint mechanism rather than other game issues? To me, the biggest problem with sprint could be solved by simply adding a stamina drain to spell casting (in addition to mana). That way, everyone could use stamina pots, and would be on a level playing field.

Assuming they add a stamina cost to spells and gave casters and priests back stamina pots, this wouldn't fix a few glaring issues:

Major issue 1)

More means less... In the bizarro world of AoC, you actually lose sprinting ability with the increase of stamina.

In another twist of irony, investing points in the mage AA that reduces .25% stamina drain per point, you actually lose sprinting ability in the long run because you are draining more stamina per tick than without putting points in the AA, thus taking longer for your pool to regenerate again.


Major issue 2)
Even if casters and priests had stamina pots, rogues and soldiers still have a huge advantage in mobility and sprinting. 800 points in endurance and 5 points in the rogue AA to reduce drain gives a rogue 13% total reduction. In other words, they are only using 7% of their stamina pool for each tick of sprinting. Soldiers only use 8.25% of their pool per tick. Compare that to 20% for mages and non shaman healers or 1.25%/2.5% less with the AAs fully feated.

The only way to keep it a shared resource and truly balance things would be to set a static size for all stamina pools that is the same size regardless of class, normalize the stam cost of combos and spells so that stamina usage is equal across classes, give endurance skill to all classes, then remove any stamina pool gain stats from all AA's and armor sets. This would leave rogues with a slightly better sprinting ability (7% per tick) than other classes, which one would expect to have as a rogue, but not a drastic difference like it is now. Soldiers would be consume 8.25% per tick, priests would consume 9.5% per tick, and mages would consume 10.75% per tick. This kind of solution isn't any easier than Funcom's proposed solution but is really the only other way for the sprint system to be fair.


Major issue 3)
Combining sprinting and combo resources into one pool is just plain bad design. Funcom is doing it right in their approach to separate the resources.(the Diablo 2 approach) A few people are just resistant to the change because you are used to the current system. The one thing I hope for is that when the system is released, that the result is more movement and sprinting ability across all classes rather than less movement. That part is up to Funcom to do right.

[Unutterable]

Originally Posted by chodebucket That part is up to Funcom to do right.

I didst lol.


Otherwise your post is solid.

[Griefercast]

Originally Posted by RentonsHouse Why is so much effort being put into this new sprint mechanism rather than other game issues? To me, the biggest problem with sprint could be solved by simply adding a stamina drain to spell casting (in addition to mana). That way, everyone could use stamina pots, and would be on a level playing field.

LOLWUT LOLWUT LOLWUT!! a stamina drain on casting are you kidding me!!! thats insane , funcom should have never removed stamina pots from caster until they found a better solution to the problem , many people left the game because of that and if they even take your view into consideration i think that will be the final nail on the coffin for failcom.

[RentonsHouse]

Originally Posted by chodebucket Assuming they add a stamina cost to spells and gave casters and priests back stamina pots, this wouldn't fix a few glaring issues: Major issue 1) More means less... In the bizarro world of AoC, you actually lose sprinting ability with the increase of stamina.

They could give casters more stamina and/or make the stamina cost of spells high. They could even adjust these values over time to improve class balance.

Originally Posted by chodebucket Major issue 2) Even if casters and priests had stamina pots, rogues and soldiers still have a huge advantage in mobility and sprinting.

Not everything has to be 100% equal, its not a big deal if some classes can sprint a little more than others. Again, the values could be adjusted for increased balance.

Originally Posted by chodebucket Major issue 3) Combining sprinting and combo resources into one pool is just plain bad design.

I think having it a shared resource requires more player skill. As melee, you now have to balance combo's, double taps, active blocking, and sprinting. This is a good thing because you have more choices, for example if you are low on stamina you may have the choice of either double tapping back or using a combo. In the new system you lose that choice.

Regardless, due to Funcom's track record I'm against any major change to existing systems ... I'll say it now "I told you so"

[chodebucket]

Originally Posted by RentonsHouse They could give casters more stamina and/or make the stamina cost of spells high. They could even adjust these values over time to improve class balance.

Huh? How is this a response to my point #1? Go back and reread.

Not everything has to be 100% equal, its not a big deal if some classes can sprint a little more than others. Again, the values could be adjusted for increased balance.

"a little more than others" would be like the scenario I described where are stamina pools are equal on all classes with no gear or AA's affecting pool size, spells and combos both use stamina, all classes get the endurance skill, and all classes get stamina pots. Then make it so the only differentiating factor for sprinting comes from the archtype AA's. The current difference between a rogue and a caster/priest is about 15 seconds of sprint time compared to 5 seconds, or 3 times the amount of sprinting. This is not "a little bit". Not even in the same ballpark.

I can tell you haven't thought this out very well. Your post is very much a knee-jerk reaction to change. I also wonder if you've played a tos or other caster before. Casters in general are an exercise in frustration for both pvp and pve as you get trains of mobs that you can't even run from long enough to lose agro.

I think having it a shared resource requires more player skill. As melee, you now have to balance combo's, double taps, active blocking, and sprinting. This is a good thing because you have more choices, for example if you are low on stamina you may have the choice of either double tapping back or using a combo. In the new system you lose that choice. Regardless, due to Funcom's track record I'm against any major change to existing systems ... I'll say it now "I told you so"

Added unnecessary handicaps doesn't equate to "more player skill". More player frustration is the more accurate description as all too often it leads to people being stuck without stamina to do combos and end up white hitting like or standing still like a tard. It was a bad mechanic to begin with and just because we are used to the current system doesn't mean a changed hasn't been needed for a long time. People have been begging for this change since 2008.

I would argue that having to manage two different pools of resources is more micromanagement and thus requires more skill than a single pool.

Funcom has a bad track record of changes and it is anybody's guess how this one will go but regardless, the change is still needed.

[RentonsHouse]

Originally Posted by chodebucket I can tell you haven't thought this out very well. Your post is very much a knee-jerk reaction to change.

Hardly knee jerk, the bottom line is they can balance sprint by adjusting the size of the stamina pool of casters as well as the stamina cost per spell. Alternatively, they could adjust the stamina burn rate of sprinting for each class. It doesn't have to be perfect balance, but they could make it pretty close. This has the least impact on the current system while still improving balance.

The real issues with their current direction are the unintended consequences and inevitable dumbing down of yet another mechanism. Their sledge hammer instead of scalpel approach has done a lot of damage to this game.

Anyway, we don't have to agree or come to some conclusion; Funcom doesn't read these anyway.

[Roari]

A Stam cost on spells would also mean I can't spell weave as often or as long. Would hurt in pvp and pve

[Talrain]

Originally Posted by RentonsHouse Hardly knee jerk, the bottom line is they can balance sprint by adjusting the size of the stamina pool of casters as well as the stamina cost per spell. Alternatively, they could adjust the stamina burn rate of sprinting for each class. It doesn't have to be perfect balance, but they could make it pretty close. This has the least impact on the current system while still improving balance. The real issues with their current direction are the unintended consequences and inevitable dumbing down of yet another mechanism. Their sledge hammer instead of scalpel approach has done a lot of damage to this game. Anyway, we don't have to agree or come to some conclusion; Funcom doesn't read these anyway.

Its Funcom, why tinker with the current system when you can throw it out and spend twice as long and twice as many resources developing a completely new system that no one wants....