[Erock25]

Originally Posted by Wickeds It's not that much of an issue like it was, DTs are obscenely OP, and guards will always be the best tanks. If DT's were nerfed like everyone wants them to be they'd find themselves without much aggro. Again, conqs just aren't OP, DT's and Guards are. Having said that, they need to be to keep up with high DPS. So the easy answer is to give conqs even more hate, but truth be told, the class isn't a main tank class anyway.

So dt and guard are main tank but conq isnt? Who decided that and what did conqs get in return for being an offtank? It isn't higher DPS or group buffs. Battle res every 10 minutes?

Conqs were perfect in the tanking balance before guards got their slight revamp that made sword and board OP hate generation and DTs had Vom. Conqs were beasts at pulling aggro, but had lower mitigation and had to rely on bubbles.

[Wickeds]

Originally Posted by Erock25 So dt and guard are main tank but conq isnt? Who decided that and what did conqs get in return for being an offtank? It isn't higher DPS or group buffs. Battle res every 10 minutes? Conqs were perfect in the tanking balance before guards got their slight revamp that made sword and board OP hate generation and DTs had Vom. Conqs were beasts at pulling aggro, but had lower mitigation and had to rely on bubbles.

You realize though, that if VoM didn't exist, DT's would be twice as bad as conqs? That psychotically OP perk is the only thing that remotely keeps DTs with Guardians. And far as I can tell DT's weren't really supposed to be main tanks either, but they can because they're OP. VoM isn't just the aggro, it's the health tap which DTs feed off as well.

Well why are you specing Brute for T3 then? When Carnage is clearly more productive for your situation. That's like a barbarian thinking it's ok to spec zerker and do crap DPS because they have easier CC's making them useful for ONE fight in T3, when they could near top DPS as reaver. All you're really contributing to many T3 fights if your earlier post is accurate is a battle res. Conqs SHOULD have more +hate on Brute side, if they're supposed to be even with Guards, can't deny that. But aren't you and Otou in the same guild? And doesn't he main tank Thoth keeping aggro off guards (I know his gear and AA but still, that should be an inspiration).

Rangers are even more out of whack as far as class PVE balance goes, they can't come near the DPS on sins and barbs anymore (good ones), so what's there place in a raid? Mezz shotting adds? please.

[Erock25]

Originally Posted by Wickeds You realize though, that if VoM didn't exist, DT's would be twice as bad as conqs? That psychotically OP perk is the only thing that remotely keeps DTs with Guardians. And far as I can tell DT's weren't really supposed to be main tanks either, but they can because they're OP. VoM isn't just the aggro, it's the health tap which DTs feed off as well. Well why are you specing Brute for T3 then? When Carnage is clearly more productive for your situation. That's like a barbarian thinking it's ok to spec zerker and do crap DPS because they have easier CC's making them useful for ONE fight in T3, when they could near top DPS as reaver. All you're really contributing to many T3 fights if your earlier post is accurate is a battle res. Conqs SHOULD have more +hate on Brute side, if they're supposed to be even with Guards, can't deny that. But aren't you and Otou in the same guild? And doesn't he main tank Thoth keeping aggro off guards (I know his gear and AA but still, that should be an inspiration). Rangers are even more out of whack as far as class PVE balance goes, they can't come near the DPS on sins and barbs anymore (good ones), so what's there place in a raid? Mezz shotting adds? please.

The "why don't you go carnage" argument has merit but barbs are a dps class and have a perfectly viable feat tree for dps. Conqs are tanks and do not have a viable feat tree for tanking.

Otou is the best conq I have ever seen and he is also fed up with conqs glaring imbalance in hate generation. I'm not sure if I have ever seen him get thoth aggro consistently either. He hasn't brought his conq to a raid in ages and was carnage last time he did t3.

I don't know jack **** about rangers in PVE but safe would always put up very high dps numbers even after all the nerfs. Not sure why other rangers struggle ... they must be like poms now ... high ceiling but lower median.

[Samaell]

The trade-off to not being a main tank is the Carnage tree. The DPS from Carnage is asinine, no class should be able to dish out that much damage and still be able to main-tank/off-tank just for respecing.

As for DT's, why are they OP? I don't understand. VOM? I am very happy DT's can pull aggro now but that shouldnt make them OP. They are main-tanks, much more then Conqs ever have been, but this makes them OP? I do have a lvl 80 DT but I don't play it much.

[Krig82]

Going to assume you actually don't know what makes DTs OP from VoM, since you mentioned that you have an 80 DT that you don't play much.

VoM gets you a buff every time you crit. Originally, DTs crit rating wasn't good, but with khitai gear, AAs, they can get higher crit ratings. Since they already have a TON of different things that can proc and crit, it gets very easy to stack 5 or more VoM buffs.

Some of the buffs aren't great, but the one that makes DTs OP is a crit damage buff. Its been a while, but I remember it being 125% crit damage rating. ONE HUNDRED TWENTY FIVE PERCENT. other buffs are a 35% weapon damage buff, a 75% base spell damage buff,a buff that adds crushing damage to every hit, a magic damage buff, et cetera. Sick.

In pve, they can top parse in neutral stance. Santis Topped T3 raids frequently, although he is a beast on anything. Makes controlling aggro hard since the spike can be huge.

[Wickeds]

Originally Posted by Samaell The trade-off to not being a main tank is the Carnage tree. The DPS from Carnage is asinine, no class should be able to dish out that much damage and still be able to main-tank/off-tank just for respecing. As for DT's, why are they OP? I don't understand. VOM? I am very happy DT's can pull aggro now but that shouldnt make them OP. They are main-tanks, much more then Conqs ever have been, but this makes them OP? I do have a lvl 80 DT but I don't play it much.

VoM balances DTs to that level, but yeah that's what makes them OP. They can damn near top DPS in frenzy in a hybrid dread shadow build which they can tank with. In PVP a DT spec'd like Bodzin, Santis, Etros did (with their skill of landing combos which most DTs can't), can run up to a any cloth/light class and kill them in seconds with stock standard combos if anything crit.

VoM effectively more than doubles a DTs DPS, that means double health taps, and double aggro from DPS (which makes up their distinct lack of taunts). It balances them with Guards in PVE, and makes them as powerful as guards in PVP which is pretty crazy. Basically DT's are the worst of the 3 tanks without VoM, but with it (and obviously some crit rating), they become as strong as guards, just don't have the "snap" aggro guards do. Conqs just never got anything that crazy, but since conq doesn't survive on health taps like a DT does, there's no reason another hate increase wouldn't work for them (with DT's there is A LOT more to it than just nerfing VoM and increasing their hate).