[Azmith]

Originally Posted by Athalwulf This is why I wish there was a duel system on Wiccana.

Ya, for that to work though, the person running their mouth has to consent to the duel... In my experience over there, the ones running their mouths the most are the ones who refuse to EVER give in to PVP of any form, simply because "Your character could NEVER beat me IC"

Silly, I know, but what can you do?

Let's write some Conan AI that will recognize an IC threat and flag accordingly... *dreams*

[Azmith]

And to the Elkhorn, you're all quitters, go away

Hi Rio!!!

Sucks you guys changed your vent passwords then lied and said you took it down I can't even come say hi.

[bellatrixed]

Originally Posted by Azmith The option for RP-PVP adds to the text based RP in my opinion. To know that running your mouth could piss of someone enough to attack you. I'm sorry, you slap the ass of someone's girlfriend at a bar, he's not going to sit there and wait for you to be ready to punch you in the face, right?

That's what /emotes are for.

/emote growls in rage as the man smacks his girlfriend on the ass, balling his fist and sending it swinging towards his jaw

Problem solved. RP flows, and it's bar fight RP instead of bam, dead RP. :P

I understand people liking PVP--really I do. But I do sigh at the implications I keep seeing that you can't have combat/conflict RP unless there are PVP mechanics involved. Text-based, tabletop, dice, and innumerable other forms of combat RP existed before MMOs ever did, and it is just as easy and immersive to fight in game as it is to sit at a bar and drink.

Text RPers, or those on the RP-PVE servers, have plenty of conflict in their RP. We don't all hold hands and sing Kumbaya just because someone named Trololol isn't likely to jump us around a corner and teabag our corpses.

[DeathkittyyUK]

Originally Posted by bellatrixed That's what /emotes are for. /emote growls in rage as the man smacks his girlfriend on the ass, balling his fist and sending it swinging towards his jaw Problem solved. RP flows, and it's bar fight RP instead of bam, dead RP. :P I understand people liking PVP--really I do. But I do sigh at the implications I keep seeing that you can't have combat/conflict RP unless there are PVP mechanics involved. Text-based, tabletop, dice, and innumerable other forms of combat RP existed before MMOs ever did, and it is just as easy and immersive to fight in game as it is to sit at a bar and drink. Text RPers, or those on the RP-PVE servers, have plenty of conflict in their RP. We don't all hold hands and sing Kumbaya just because someone named Trololol isn't likely to jump us around a corner and teabag our corpses.

One of the best posts I've seen explaining the idiocy of the idea of "PVP RP", ever... EXACTLY.

People who ask for OOC skill-based duels when they are roleplaying characters that are not THEM are morons, wow. Especially when you get into the whole levels and items affecting combat stuff, it's always a question of what character's player has the most free time to waste rather than actual roleplay being the centre of it. It's just pure ego from (nearly always) boys who get too worked up about RP and aren't able to separate IC and OOC.

[RiorachArtirryn]

Originally Posted by Azmith And to the Elkhorn, you're all quitters, go away Hi Rio!!! Sucks you guys changed your vent passwords then lied and said you took it down I can't even come say hi.

Lol Hi Azzy We actually don't have a vent anymore, as far as I know. We camp with our kith on the EU side of things now. Miss ye <3

[Sendra]

Originally Posted by DeathkittyyUK One of the best posts I've seen explaining the idiocy of the idea of "PVP RP", ever... EXACTLY. People who ask for OOC skill-based duels when they are roleplaying characters that are not THEM are morons, wow. Especially when you get into the whole levels and items affecting combat stuff, it's always a question of what character's player has the most free time to waste rather than actual roleplay being the centre of it. It's just pure ego from (nearly always) boys who get too worked up about RP and aren't able to separate IC and OOC.

It's funny how it's the anti-PvP side who always begins the name calling. *sighs at the children bickering*

Settling individual disputes 1v1 is really not what RP-PvP is, or should be, about in my opinion and not what makes it work.

On the 1v1 side there are "hits", bounties, kidnappings, things that make it fun. Except for bounties, those things could be done in emote fights since they still require the cooperation of the other RPer.

It's about battles! RP-PvP battles are loads of fun, whether pre-planned or spontaneous. They can be large-scale or smaller. They can even be individual, but fighting over something, not just matters of "honor". My group is out in the world, doing some missions we were asked by the locals to take care of, and we come across competition aiming to take our prize and our reward. We can fight over it (in reality we're simply determining who goes first in a way far more visceral and more fun than simply standing back and taking turns).

I fight my way through the bandits surrounding a tree whose wood I need for my city and just as I finish fighting the last bandit, someone else swoops in and tries to take my tree. "That tree is on our lands and is the property of Regnum" and whack! I may also go to someone else's lands to take their resources - I need them, after all - and wait for them to stop me.

I can see someone who may be a lackey of the Scarlet Circle turning a Last Legion soldier into a wolf. I may be working with the Last Legion - whether out of deep allegiance, a simple hired hand, or using them to gain knowledge. I can challenge that Scarlet Circle person, fight, maybe they'll bring others and I'll bring others and we'll have major "gang" warfare in Pin-Pin.

A megalomaniac priest of Mitra takes over the city of Tesso, demanding that all follow his law, his version of Mitra's will, and has his thugs roughing up anyone who refuses to comply. What an open invitation to come RP and stop him, drive him out! Protect the people and the commerce of Tesso. Anti-Mitra groups, Mitran groups who recognize that he does NOT speak for the bulk of followers of Mitra, groups who have staked their RP claim as protecting the Wild Lands, groups who have staked their RP claim as protecting commerce and travel, even just friends of someone who was roughed up - so many potential opponents and reasons to fight a big fun RP-PvP battle.

Walk through the Common District of Tarantia - it's full of violence and gang warfare, being sniped from the rooftops. How much more fun to go in there with a group and snoop out the other "gangs" who have staked their claims there. We can fight to 'clean up the streets" if that suits our RP. Or we can be there searching for the best hidden warehouses and which officials are the easiest to bribe. Or we can be doing the latter but pretending to do the former. There are so many ways to RP it and the battles are quite simply loads of fun and further the RP of many people at the same time.

RP-PvP is big. People who prefer to avoid PvP seem (from my limited observations) to prefer smaller, more intimate stories. It doesn't make one "right" and the other "wrong". PvP offers different tools for different flavors of RP.

Whether to RP in a PvP setting or not is a choice, based on what aspects of game play you find fun. I think Funcom made a big mistake back at launch by not having two designated RP servers in the US - a PvP server and a PvE server. Although even so, you don't need an RP designation to RP anywhere, as the fun people (who prefer PvE) have found RPing on Wiccana illustrates.

[bellatrixed]

Sendra, there are some people who enjoy RP-PVP in a mature, fun way like it sounds like you do--but you can't deny that there are also the griefers and the "I win" style RPers who get angry OOC if they can't kill your character through PVP. I have encountered all three styles of RP-PVP (the good, the bad, and the worse) and just returned to PVE because the bad outweighed the good for me.

What my guild, and I'm sure lots of others do, is just go do quests IC. This creates RP revolved around combat and danger, but we just aren't warring with other players. It isn't for everyone, but we find it a lot of fun.

I ask this in all seriousness, because I don't know: How do RP-PVPers rationalize someone's character being killed in PVP? Since it seems a big part of the allure of RP-PVP is the visual element of combat, if your guild leader's head is on the ground... what happens? I don't mean this bitchily, I am truly curious lol.

[Galienus]

Originally Posted by bellatrixed Sendra, there are some people who enjoy RP-PVP in a mature, fun way like it sounds like you do--but you can't deny that there are also the griefers and the "I win" style RPers who get angry OOC if they can't kill your character through PVP. I have encountered all three styles of RP-PVP (the good, the bad, and the worse) and just returned to PVE because the bad outweighed the good for me. What my guild, and I'm sure lots of others do, is just go do quests IC. This creates RP revolved around combat and danger, but we just aren't warring with other players. It isn't for everyone, but we find it a lot of fun. I ask this in all seriousness, because I don't know: How do RP-PVPers rationalize someone's character being killed in PVP? Since it seems a big part of the allure of RP-PVP is the visual element of combat, if your guild leader's head is on the ground... what happens? I don't mean this bitchily, I am truly curious lol.

just because you were defeated in combat, does not mean your character is dead. injured or incapacitated.. but not dead. No one can permanently kill your character unless you want it that way.

rp-pvp, done well is really a team effort. what you describe are actions of individuals. if someone insists on pushing for duels, your rp-pvp group can't take him out until he stops, usually if they can't prove their awesomeness, they will move on. maybe next time they will think twice about attacking a group of rp'ers that will fight back.

no reason not to quest ic.. it is fun. better yet, when interrupted by a would be dueler while group questing.. fight back ic as a group and make it part of the rp. good fun.

if the person really is an idiot.. it is a good bet most of the server knows already, so you have nothing to worry about. at least one name comes to mind that fits this.. so you just don't humor them.

rp-pvp is fun, best not to let a few individuals ruin it.

[Sendra]

Originally Posted by bellatrixed I ask this in all seriousness, because I don't know: How do RP-PVPers rationalize someone's character being killed in PVP? Since it seems a big part of the allure of RP-PVP is the visual element of combat, if your guild leader's head is on the ground... what happens? I don't mean this bitchily, I am truly curious lol.

I'll ask you - how do you rationalize someone's character being killed in PvE? I don't see it as being significantly different.

There are a few who RP it as actually dying and being resurrected. But what most of the people I play with do is RP it as simply defeated, or roughed up and knocked down, whatever fits the situation and allows RP to continue. It's highly situational and depends on the circumstances of the fight of course.

Some stay down and wait for a response if they know their opponent to be a role player. I have to confess that in the heat of battle I don't always think to do that. But it can lead to some more good RP.

As I said, a lot really depends on your perception and interpretation of the situation. Trust is a huge factor. If a role player I trust attacks me and wins, I will stay down (or ooc rez and ooc run back and lie or sit down on the ground) and wait for the RP that follows. If someone I know to be not a role player attacks, I rez and run back and continue - the event is filed away in my RP as one of the kinds of attacks out in the world that make the world a brutal place, and that I should be more careful and also learn to fight better. I also know that if I see that individual again, to expect him to be hostile and act accordingly.

The reason I (and many other RPers) do not accept the Funcom storyline of immortality is that it eliminates so much motivation from most RP between groups and people. I like to play it as that I am just as mortal as everyone else but just have been lucky enough to not die yet.

In major battles, such as sieges, it doesn't make much sense that no one on either side died. But I always RP that guilds or cities contain a lot more people than is represented by actual players. In a siege or other major battle we should consider that way more than 48 people are on a side. Hundreds of soldiers are on each side, and most deaths are simply the death of one of those nameless soldiers.

I prefer to RP acknowledging that death may happen. This is a brutal world where life is cheap though - even our own. We probably don't want to throw away our lives for nothing. But in history and in fantasy and in this world, there are reasons to fight, even though that means risking death. Barroom brawls, even deadly ones, happen even in the modern world. People do fight over things important and unimportant, and in a fantasy world such as this, they do a lot.

Resurrection by a deity, or some other strong "supernatural" power has been known to happen, but you can't expect it or rely on it. In-depth RP of resurrecting the dead can be useful in RP to allow someone to continue RP, or for other story-development reasons. But for most of us, RP resurrection isn't as easy as simply waving our arms and suddenly the dead walk again.

For my own characters, they know their few strengths and many weaknesses. They have different personalities and motivations, but in general they try not to die, but fear living in fear or under oppression worse than they fear death. I know that every battle that I "fall" in, I was very lucky I didn't die. So far I, and most of the people closest to me, have been lucky - but that doesn't mean the next one won't be our last. But in ooc reality, it will only be my last, my death, if I the player choose it to be. And I have no intention of killing off any of my characters any time soon. I have one that I had a great opportunity to kill off, but was talked out of it. I hardly RP her at all because she just doesn't have much of an existence any more - I do wish I had killed her off.

I have RP'd "consequences" of selected fights, attacks, and battles, depending on the situation. Sometimes I just get up and fight some more, or stay down and don't get up until the attackers have moved on. Other times I have incorporated the injury into RP for a time until healed. In one case (that I'm still working on the "healing" and resolution of) the RP consequences of the attack have lasted more than a year.

[Ruugab]

fatalities are spontaneous, the battles Ive gotten in RP, i may have decapitated them, but you don't really pick up on that, you ignore it

what if your out in the pve world and an NPC just preformed a fatality on you in-front of your friends? would you ignore that and pretend he didn't really just cut your arms off? or would you play on that and forever RP armless?

and if you say the second, i will forever crown you king/queen of RP