[t0ucht0ne]

Tar-Hirel,

Just wanted to say that the post you link to above is very informative and although some of the numbers definitely have changed it does show some of the information behind the "magical" abilities.

Thanks for this - gave me all sorts of ideas to try.

[brettau]

Originally Posted by Tar-Hirel taunt if a recall is only a proc that can ad a certain number of hate depending on how many points you have

Their taunt results was "almost 100%", I'm thinking 800 points being 80% would make sense?

[Verse-eqoa]

Well, guard is not my main, in fact i rarely play it anymore since the expac. But I can chime in on a few things.

On my barb I regularly group with both a badass polearm tank (rohak) and SnB tank (mabus), and truth be told, I dread grouping with anyone else lest i spend half my time not dpsing.

From a High Aggro/dps perspective (almost always the person who is going to peel if the tank loses it) I can tell you overall I prefer (not by much) a SnB guards hate. The difference between the two in my opinion is that a SnB put out a steady predictable hate amount, While a polearm guard is prone to burst of either insanely high or rather weak aggro, it really depends on if the combo was a high or low roll. While some may argue this holds true to both specs, i think the reason it is more noticable on a polearm guard is due to the animation lengths of the combo, a SnB guard will still have the same amount of highs and lows, it just happens over a shorter period of time, hence averageing out to a steady medium much quicker.

I think alot of the dispute over which spec is higher aggro come down to the players ability to time and hit his combos. (this is by no means a personal attack on anyone so dont take it that way) A Polearm build is much easier to use and noob friendly in that the player will spend about half as much time moving and working combos. lag, fps, computer issues, they all effect a polearm guard less then a SnB.

A SnB has to work twice as hard as a polearm guard, Maybe some of the people who have played both have walked away feeling that a polearm guard has more aggro simply because it is easier.

I saw someone earlier talking about BV vs Strike and guard? What were they thinking trying to compare the two? Sure, BV has higher dmg/hate then SnG (at 10 vengence) but how do you base any kind of argument on a dps ability with a 5 second recast and a buffing/cc combo on a 45(?) second timer? Thats like argueing CoS vs Clobber. It's not an either or, they both have seperate uses.


Innate combo hate can be tested much easier now in the expansion then ever before, just go out to chosain and find a scholar with the evade buff up.

Ever wonder why barbs peel so easy? well our innate hate is enough to hold aggro against casters on those evade buffed mobs.

Oh, and blade, you want a test sometime? try and get in a UBL group with Tes, Labelle, Bonedancer, and myself sometime and tell us we wont be able to peel :P

[Swordborn]

Originally Posted by Verse-eqoa Well, guard is not my main, in fact i rarely play it anymore since the expac. But I can chime in on a few things. On my barb I regularly group with both a badass polearm tank (rohak) and SnB tank (mabus), and truth be told, I dread grouping with anyone else lest i spend half my time not dpsing. From a High Aggro/dps perspective (almost always the person who is going to peel if the tank loses it) I can tell you overall I prefer (not by much) a SnB guards hate. The difference between the two in my opinion is that a SnB put out a steady predictable hate amount, While a polearm guard is prone to burst of either insanely high or rather weak aggro, it really depends on if the combo was a high or low roll. While some may argue this holds true to both specs, i think the reason it is more noticable on a polearm guard is due to the animation lengths of the combo, a SnB guard will still have the same amount of highs and lows, it just happens over a shorter period of time, hence averageing out to a steady medium much quicker. I think alot of the dispute over which spec is higher aggro come down to the players ability to time and hit his combos. (this is by no means a personal attack on anyone so dont take it that way) A Polearm build is much easier to use and noob friendly in that the player will spend about half as much time moving and working combos. lag, fps, computer issues, they all effect a polearm guard less then a SnB. A SnB has to work twice as hard as a polearm guard, Maybe some of the people who have played both have walked away feeling that a polearm guard has more aggro simply because it is easier. I saw someone earlier talking about BV vs Strike and guard? What were they thinking trying to compare the two? Sure, BV has higher dmg/hate then SnG (at 10 vengence) but how do you base any kind of argument on a dps ability with a 5 second recast and a buffing/cc combo on a 45(?) second timer? Thats like argueing CoS vs Clobber. It's not an either or, they both have seperate uses. Innate combo hate can be tested much easier now in the expansion then ever before, just go out to chosain and find a scholar with the evade buff up. Ever wonder why barbs peel so easy? well our innate hate is enough to hold aggro against casters on those evade buffed mobs. Oh, and blade, you want a test sometime? try and get in a UBL group with Tes, Labelle, Bonedancer, and myself sometime and tell us we wont be able to peel :P

Bonedancer and Lebelle came from RA. I tanked for them for a long time.

[Mabus]

Originally Posted by Swordborn Bonedancer and Lebelle came from RA. I tanked for them for a long time.

Lebelle couldn't DPS his way out of a wet paper bag! He's lucky I dont play polearm or he'd be moving down another spot on the parser!

[Flaghak]

Lol mabus just has polearm envy, but I do think I'd be better off with s/s for pure hate just cause if I whiff a polearm combo, that's an entire s/s combo and the start of another that they have over me. Though I'm stubborn and tend to be the only pole guard in any guild I go, so I stick with it, lol.

And if there is no such thing as innate hate, it would be difficult for me to believe that someone such as mabus spamming the same exact hate abilities whenver they're up and can keep aggro from me even though I'm consistently doing 25% more damage. Most can only keep up because of bloody vengeance, and some barely need it at all.

Also, noone was saying that bloody vengeace isn't useful for keeping or taking aggro, just that it doesn't have the same innate hate other combos have. Damage is almost always hate, but hate is not always damage.

[Kikaida]

Originally Posted by Mabus Lebelle couldn't DPS his way out of a wet paper bag! He's lucky I dont play polearm or he'd be moving down another spot on the parser!

HAHAHAHA!!!

Marc is a good player.