[Mabus]

Didn't mean to start a pissing contest hehe, Just wanted to get some information and dialogue going to help ALL us guards - veterans, and especially newbies, alike!

That was the guide I was referring to, and I still believe it to be correct. It taught me to tank, and I tank ****ing well It also seems to make sense as the combos in S and B HAVE to have innate hate increase or Polearms would tank us under the table. I have yet to find a polearm guard who can keep hate off of me!

So, with the numbers out there, and the egos aside, what does everyone think? I saw some agreements with me, some disagreements! Perhaps we need a tank off to determine the weiner! I mean winner!

[Kikaida]

Originally Posted by Mabus Didn't mean to start a pissing contest hehe, Just wanted to get some information and dialogue going to help ALL us guards - veterans, and especially newbies, alike! That was the guide I was referring to, and I still believe it to be correct. It taught me to tank, and I tank ****ing well It also seems to make sense as the combos in S and B HAVE to have innate hate increase or Polearms would tank us under the table. I have yet to find a polearm guard who can keep hate off of me! So, with the numbers out there, and the egos aside, what does everyone think? I saw some agreements with me, some disagreements! Perhaps we need a tank off to determine the weiner! I mean winner!

I agree with you Mabus! /SIGNED

The old guild I was in had a great tank named Catalina! He too subscribed to your methods and he was a BEAST!!! once he had it...nobody pulled it off! He did his combos and coh and irritates on pick your boss (10 seconds MAX!!!)...and then told all to go all out and try and pull it...and the pulls never happened!!! There was also a Conqueror who was a beast...who would do the same...but not to Catalina and arguably not to Mabus, his <the Conq> survivability was always in question as he did not have the mit/armor that a guard did...he was still a pretty beastly tank for a Conq...but never better than a Guard IMO!

I try to do the same as well on my tank Uthvass which I hardly play unfortunately, because I am always swapping to another toon for the good of the raid...usually DPS or Heals!

[Swordborn]

That is the guide I learned off of as well also. That is why in my post I said if you are trying to TAKE agro as a s/s you need to be doing overreach.... it is your highest threat combo.

I have played both s/s and polearm. I like polearm better because I like the look etc.. BUT I have always been able to hold agro regardless of spec. As far as I know the number in that guide for threat still hold true.

Mabus maybe we need to raid with each other one of these nights and see what happens.

[Kastos]

Originally Posted by Jimmyup I hear bloody vengeance has almost none, so even though it is much DPS it is not as good as strike and guard.

For once i'm agreeing with Jimmyup, a guildie ran some tests and BV, although doing much higher DPS, didn't generate as much hate as OR/SnG.

[Kikaida]

Originally Posted by Swordborn That is the guide I learned off of as well also. That is why in my post I said if you are trying to TAKE agro as a s/s you need to be doing overreach.... it is your highest threat combo. I have played both s/s and polearm. I like polearm better because I like the look etc.. BUT I have always been able to hold agro regardless of spec. As far as I know the number in that guide for threat still hold true. Mabus maybe we need to raid with each other one of these nights and see what happens.

I would like to see a tank off with you two and Catalina! I have seen Mabus in action and he and Catalina are the best on the server IMO! But that does in no way mean that there is not another!!!

[t0ucht0ne]

I know I said I wasn't gonna respond - and I promise - after this I won't - but I'm just in shock that even the advocates are basing their information on data that existed pre-1.03. In fact, according to Jimmy - the paper was written at launch.

Not sure what to say.

All I will say is that what several of you are saying does not reflect the reality that I'm experiencing. Telling people that Strike and Guard has more "innate hate" (there's one of those magical terms again) then Bloody Vengeance is disseminating wrong information if you ask me.

Have you ever turned a mob back to you using Strike and Guard? Of course not. When you drop a fat BV using either polearm or sword and board and you hit for over 2,800 (make that two times for polearm) - you get the attention of anything that was in striking distance.

The whole game mechanics changed drastically over the last two years - hard to imagine anything in that original paper is even applicable.

But old information dies hard... SIGH. One thing we can all agree on is that the guardian class does attract the highest per capita group of ****ing rejects out of all the classes. "The Gunny", Jimmy, etc. I mean, these are some real class acts and picture perfect quality of what our class has to offer. Creme de la creme.

Ok, I apologize - let's just keep telling people about the "super secret hate coefficient" - oh my god - that one was the best.

Later.

[brettau]

Originally Posted by Gaarah (Innate Class Hate Coefficient)*(Hate Increase Factor)*[(Hate from Aggro Gaining Abilities) + (Innate Combo Hate Coefficient)*(Damage)*(Possibly Damage Type Coefficient if Applicable)]

You're forgetting taunt and I'm not sure about class coefficients...

Would be much easier to say...
(Damage + bonus combo threat + threat from skills) * hate = agro generated.

I remember someone posted numbers on TL under 1.05 that corrolated pretty much with that. I can't remember exactly but they also calculated taunt was something like taunt/100 = % chance any agro generated would be applied twice?

[fredgsanford]

Originally Posted by brettau You're forgetting taunt and I'm not sure about class coefficients... Would be much easier to say... (Damage + bonus combo threat + threat from skills) * hate = agro generated. I remember someone posted numbers on TL under 1.05 that corrolated pretty much with that. I can't remember exactly but they also calculated taunt was something like taunt/100 = % chance any agro generated would be applied twice?

Hmmm, I thought 100 taunt is 1% hate. Could be wrong, kinda think this was said as run speed is 1% faster and other skills are 100 is 1, such as perception.

[brettau]

Originally Posted by Jimmyup Hmmm, I thought 100 taunt is 1% hate. Could be wrong, kinda think this was said as run speed is 1% faster and other skills are 100 is 1, such as perception.

I don't think taunt changes your hate % in the stats though? Also whay have both stats on the same pieces of gear?

My conq has no taunt, I'll add some points tonight and see if stats change.

[Tar-Hirel]

taunt if a recall is only a proc that can ad a certain number of hate depending on how many points you have

Also a nice little link gor the TL http://forums-tl.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?t=44411

numbers might have change, but the core mechanics still works