[Rorry]

Originally Posted by thegreatheed What is the guard going to do when you're focusing on him? He will have no vengeance counters, so BV will hit like a wet noodle and have a 30 second cooldown. If he's in frenzy stance, he'll take a lot of dmg, yet won't have the ability to kill anything without BV. If he's in defensive stance, well, he's turtling, you either burn through it or risk BV damage later. You really don't understand this concept? To do fearable pvp damage, the guardian must be ignored AND SIMULTANEOUSLY be the squishiest player on the field. But then again, I don't expect a serious response, you're just a troll after all, incapable of making a logical response. Go on, try to prove me wrong.

He is still going to do serous damage with flashing arcs reckoning and prime initiative.

And when the whole team is focusing the guardian he goes in to deffensive stance with his 50%+ mitigation and magic protection and laughs for half an hour while the other team tries to kill him and if they even get close to killing you you simply aoe fear/bubble

fcusing the guardian is simply impossible when you facter I the fact his team will be raping your team

also the guardian does not have to be the squihiest member of the team when you consider things such as guarded Frenzy. The guardian is the THE most over powered class in the game second to rangers.

Also you shouldn't be under the assumption that a guardian can not kill anything with out BV as it simply not the case with PI storm strike and flashing arcs you are just as deadly to an opponet.

[thegreatheed]

Originally Posted by randombaddie123 He is still going to do serous damage with flashing arcs reckoning and prime initiative.

Hmmm, serious dmg, like.... what? name one class a guard will outdmg in this situation. Here's a hint, NONE. So, that "ser[i]ous damage" is actually, laughable damage.

And when the whole team is focusing the guardian he goes in to deffensive stance with his 50%+ mitigation and magic protection and laughs for half an hour while the other team tries to kill him and if they even get close to killing you you simply aoe fear/bubble fcusing the guardian is simply impossible when you facter I the fact his team will be raping your team

Focusing a guard is hard for baddies, it requires a smidgeon of communication and coordination.

Ok, so, we're talking about a PVE geared guard with his 50%+ mitigation? In that case, don't focus him, cause if he goes frenzy + BV, he won't do serious damage in that PVE gear.

I'm just making sure we have our situations in order.

also the guardian does not have to be the squihiest member of the team when you consider things such as guarded Frenzy.

Guarded frenzy will still leave guardians the squishiest member of the team. Go compare a PVP geared guard in frenzy with that talent against an equally geared, pvp specced sin. The sin will have more mitigation, and more cooldowns, and more CCs.

Another thing to note, you cannot spec BV, SS, and guarded frenzy. So you are comparing thing, as an accumulation, that cannot occur together.

The guardian is the THE most over powered class in the game second to rangers.

Your mythical combination of PVE specced/geared (while in def stance) and PVP specced/geared (while in frenzy killin ur doodz), with 85 talent points to get BV, SS, guarded frenzy, is a severely overpowered creation. Sorry to burst your bubble, but they don't exist.

Also you shouldn't be under the assumption that a guardian can not kill anything with out BV as it simply not the case with PI storm strike and flashing arcs you are just as deadly to an opponet.

Do you have any clue the animation + combo time for that combination? I guess not, or you wouldn't describe it as deadly.


Next?

[Rorry]

Originally Posted by thegreatheed Hmmm, serious dmg, like.... what? name one class a guard will outdmg in this situation. Here's a hint, NONE. So, that "ser[i]ous damage" is actually, laughable damage.

You do a lot more DPS then you think one combo + reckoning is pretty much 50% or more of a squishies life sure its not as bursty but the damage is there

Focusing a guard is hard for baddies, it requires a smidgeon of communication and coordination.

Focusing a guardian that knows what they are doing and killing them before theyr team kills most if not all of your team is impossible.

Ok, so, we're talking about a PVE geared guard with his 50%+ mitigation? In that case, don't focus him, cause if he goes frenzy + BV, he won't do serious damage in that PVE gear.

Not sure what point you are trying to make here. In my full T1/T2 mix I hit a hell of a lot harder then I do in my PVP 1-5 mix. Keep in mind I wear a mix normally and dont go full pvp or pve gear.

Another thing to note, you cannot spec BV, SS, and guarded frenzy. So you are comparing thing, as an accumulation, that cannot occur together.

yes I am fully aware I just dont see the benefit of specing storm both strike/BV for general play.

Do you have any clue the animation + combo time for that combination? I guess not, or you wouldn't describe it as deadly.

I was simply refering to the fact that having those combos makes you a deadly threat as stormstrike/PI/Reckoning combo alone is awesome burst and only 1 or 2 classes have a better one

[Melon]

Originally Posted by thegreatheed Hmmm, serious dmg, like.... what? name one class a guard will outdmg in this situation. Here's a hint, NONE. So, that "ser[i]ous damage" is actually, laughable damage. Ok, so, we're talking about a PVE geared guard with his 50%+ mitigation? In that case, don't focus him, cause if he goes frenzy + BV, he won't do serious damage in that PVE gear.

Ummm what? I only speced BV a while ago, and before I did I used to do absolutely fine minigames.I was tank spec using polearm (with SS). I did fine in minis, this was way before PI too.

I did not get as many kills as I do with BV, but I still came out of minis with lots of kills. Your suggestion that a guard without BV can do no damage is fail. They are quite capable of doing damage, but it isn't as brutally instant and repeatable as BV is (ie, their hardest hitting combo SS is on a 20s cooldown from memory, not an 8s cooldown like BV).

The trap you are falling into (as many others seem to) is that BV is so good that you become totally reliant on it. Yes BV is a brutal ability, so much so that many believe guards can't live without it. This belief isn't true; I went from tank spec guard doing fine in minis to full pvp spec getting even more kills.

Also, your last sentence above is pretty laughable "we're talking about a PVE geared guard with his 50%+ mitigation? In that case, don't focus him, cause if he goes frenzy + BV, he won't do serious damage in that PVE gear". What gear they use is a moot point, as you suggest that a guard with 50% mitigation (ie, tank spec pve geared guard) won't do any serious dps. My guardian has both 50% mitigation and 50% protection at the same time (d stance obviously) - and I still hit like a truck with frenzy BV. Additionally, t2 raid gear gives melee characters more dps than t1 pvp gear, so "won't do serious damage in that PVE gear" is flat our wrong.

[Mexi]

They are right, a good Guardian doesn't need BV to be a threat.

For a long time I was pure tempest tree and I could easily get 15-20 kills in minis with Storm Strike and Reckoning. Throw in Prime Initiative now and a guard can do serious damage without BV or 10 Vengance stacks.

You may actually be able to focus fire MOST Guardians first, because they are just that bad, but if you try that on a decent guardian your whole team will just get killed by the other 5 players you are ignoring, especially if the guard has his Fear/Knockback/Last Stand ready.

I honestly hope Funcom does nerf BV because it lets all these terrible guardians get kills by pressing ONE button. Every day I see the worst Guardians on Cimmeria getting 10+ kills in minis and to be honest it is embarassing and one of the reasons I don't play mine as much as I used to. If they nerf BV you will see all the bad Guardians go back to other toons becuase they don't know anything but BV, and only a handfull of us will continue smashing on everyone like nothing has changed.

[brettau]

Originally Posted by Almexia If they nerf BV you will see all the bad Guardians go back to other toons

Just like all the bad sins and rangers stopped playing after their revamps.

Oh wait.

[Mexi]

Originally Posted by brettau Just like all the bad sins and rangers stopped playing after their revamps. Oh wait.

I see what you did there.

[Thutkemi]

Originally Posted by thegreatheed What is the guard going to do when you're focusing on him? He will have no vengeance counters, so BV will hit like a wet noodle and have a 30 second cooldown. If he's in frenzy stance, he'll take a lot of dmg, yet won't have the ability to kill anything without BV. If he's in defensive stance, well, he's turtling, you either burn through it or risk BV damage later. You really don't understand this concept? To do fearable pvp damage, the guardian must be ignored AND SIMULTANEOUSLY be the squishiest player on the field. But then again, I don't expect a serious response, you're just a troll after all, incapable of making a logical response. Go on, try to prove me wrong.

Wow....

I was being serious, not trolling

Focusing a guardian who has even a modicum of situational awareness is going to get your team destroyed.

I have a guard, PVP 4 with a T2 helm. I run hybrid spec and, with my T3 BK buffs in defensive stance I'm sitting at about 48% mitigation and up to 51% magic mitigation (depending on what buffs I run). Even if I get caught in frenzy for one CC, I'm still hitting defensive as soon as that's done. My healers are still tossing hots on me. I still have my bubble and my fear. During all this, my teammates are still shredding you guys while you beat on me.

I mean, sure, if 6 people beat on 1, you are going to burn them down. That goes without saying with any class.

Anyway, keep on with the personal attacks. Seems when people disagree with you, you go there because you can't refute their logical arguments with anything other than attacks.

[-Trojan-]

Hopefully they make BV some kind of shield combo with the revamp. It has been way too long since ive been able to fight with my sword and shield.

[Serrasus]

I like my guardian the way it is for the most part i think a couple changes need to be made like reducing BV when stacks to 10 to a 20-30 sec cd not 8 also make it so we take more damage in frenzie and cannot resist cc while in frenzie id also like to see our buffs revamps the way conqs were other then that i think guards are fine as is.